"Krone" interview

Barbara Morgenstern: “We’re driving it up the wall”

In a slightly desperate search for some hope and a future in this dark world: Berlin-based Barbara Morgenstern dresses her emotions in chamber music.

(Bild: Mara von Kummer)

Barbara Morgenstern has been a major figure in the German-speaking indie scene since the 1990s. In recent years, she has focused on theater with Rimini Protokoll, but returned musically a few weeks ago with "In anderem Licht". On it, she processes dystopian thoughts of our world in upheaval in chamber music-like songs. She will be playing at the Volkstheater Vienna on March 13. We spoke to her in advance about the art of preserving hope in this world.

"Krone": Barbara, tomorrow, March 13, you will be presenting your new album "In anderem Licht" at the Volkstheater in Vienna. It has a chamber music flair, overlong songs and a lot of message - it is also a clear departure from its predecessor "Unschuld und Verwüstung" (Innocence and Desolation) from 2018, which was much more electronic.
Barbara Morgenstern: Corona was a huge turning point for me. For many, it was a happy time, but I couldn't go into seclusion and work on my music. I had to reschedule a thousand things, give streaming concerts and worry about whether projects could take place at all. I would have had concerts with "Innocence and Devastation" back then, but they were canceled. My flow was interrupted. I directed the "Chor der Kulturen der Welt" for years, which I ended in 2021. I also concentrated on theater and did big productions with Rimini Protokoll, but some things were also cancelled and stopped.

When you're so busy with theater projects, you probably can't concentrate so well on a new album?
That is true. The music I make is intended for niches. It doesn't cater to the usual format and the masses because the pieces are longer and more complex. You always have to be focused and active. You have to immerse yourself in it and block out time just for the album. Finding this time slot was a big challenge. It had to be done at some point, which is why it took almost six years.

The fact that the electronics hardly took up any space at all was very surprising, at least to me ...
Do you think it's a break with the last album? Stylistically it probably is, but there were also reactions that you can still recognize my identity in the songs. I generally felt like making exactly this kind of music because I've written a lot for small theater ensembles. I had the saxophonist from the last album on board again. Free from the electronic grid, you can react to each other and you have a common timing. The desire to arrange came from the theater work. Everything made sense and opened up another dimension. On an emotional level, my music is perhaps more accessible. I'm happy with the album.

You've already played the album live in Berlin - does it feel more intimate for you on stage?
I would have thought so, but I noticed that we really get going live and it gets loud. The end of the title track really rocks, there's no soft spot. (laughs) That was a big aha moment that gave me pleasure. I'm protected by the band and I'm not going out on a limb like I would if I were playing solo piano. It was nice to come up with a sound for this constellation. The songs give me the space to arrange and expand them live.

"In anderem Licht" conceptually refers to the world situation in the recent past, the present and the future. Many crises are addressed relatively unsparingly.
I wanted to look at the situation from the outside and what concerns us all. I talk about the climate catastrophe, the division in society and fears about the future. All of this is connected and when I deal with it, it's like pausing for a moment. I try to express these crises in a poetic form.

Society and the world are on fire everywhere. Don't you inevitably become depressed when you deal so intensively with the state of the world?
For me, it's about creating a connection through art. I talk about my fears and worries and want to connect with those who hear it to create a community. I also don't take a position, I describe the status quo. The question is: what do we do now? Working on it didn't make me depressed, but I did notice that it was getting quite gloomy overall. But for me, music is also a comfort. An escape from everyday life where I can process my worries. It's important to me to sing about exactly that and to bring these topics to the outside world. We were in a security bubble for a long time and it was almost a necessity to describe the social upheaval.

You were born in 1971 and belong to the generation that spent most of their lives in the most peaceful and probably most pleasant time in human history. Surely the upheaval feels even worse?
Above all, everything felt fine. I had the song "Michael Stipe" on the last album and I asked myself for the first time whether the world as we knew it was now over. That was the first time I had the feeling that we were tipping over badly. There was already a lot in the air back then and I heard about it among my friends. The financial crisis, military conflicts were getting closer and closer and then there was corona - which was an extreme slump for everyone. "Die Liebe zur Sache" is a corona song for me. People question who is left or right now? Are friends and family members lateral thinkers? What else connects us? All structures have been blown up and this is happening on many levels.

Today, you get the feeling that the right has taken on the anti-establishment role and the left calls for moderate democracy and remains well-behaved. Aren't these completely twisted positions?
Absolutely. I have the feeling that I understand and deal with them much more than I used to. What has neoliberalism done to our society? The east of Germany was completely left behind. How did the lateral thinking movement come about and what happened to the Treuhand movement? In the East, the right-wingers are incredibly popular. I can actually understand the situation, although not the answers that arise from these issues. Actually, these are the people who should vote left, but why do they believe the right?

Does the title "In a different light" mean that you should see the world from different perspectives and step out of your everyday bubble?
In the song "Zwischen den Stühlen", I make a plea that you don't always have to take a position. You have to accept that things are complex and stay in between sometimes. In the song "In anderem Licht", I was more interested in showing that everything will change. The world is changing completely. It may feel the same, but it won't be the same. I wrote the song specifically for my 14-year-old daughter.

There's a line in the song "Everything will be the same, except the old world". What is this old world?
The 70s, 80s and 90s, when everything was peaceful. That time is over. Democracies are under attack and autocracies are increasingly gaining power. Wars are getting closer. We haven't had that for many years. You ask yourself whether it still makes sense to work for your pension because it might not be secure.

There is inevitably a lot of nostalgia in songs and thoughts like these. Is it important to look back in a somewhat romanticized way in times like these?
I'm definitely nostalgic, especially when it comes to Berlin. In the 90s, the city was sensational. There was a certain innocence and a detachment from everything. Nostalgia is a protection against the fear of what is and what can happen. Today, Berlin has changed 180 degrees. Everything is gentrified and, unlike Vienna, the housing policy there is not right. Young people can no longer move away from their parents because they can't afford anything. Clubs and rehearsal rooms have been closed down and literally swept away. With these changes, a city loses its identity to a certain extent.

You've been living in Berlin for exactly 30 years this year, so more than half of your life. What has the city done to you in all this time?
I love being there. I was welcomed with open arms and all the people have totally influenced me. The music scene, my choir, the theater-that was all extremely important and it's my home. I come from the Ruhr area and feel the same way about Berlin. You still have a lot of freedom and the great thing is that Berlin is constantly coming and going. You're always working with new people and there's an endless pool of opportunities. That was also the reason for going there.

That works to your advantage anyway, because you like to change. Every album sounds different, even the theater productions don't repeat themselves.
I look for change. Until about 2000, I was lucky enough to be able to make a living from my music and toured a lot for a long time. Then I wanted to get out of this navel-gazing and the choir came along. I consciously opened up my horizons for this. As I get older, teamwork becomes my greatest treasure. So much happens when you work with others. Even with my own music, I don't stand still and look for challenges. I like to let myself drift, but that can also be a danger. If you leave your style, then it becomes dangerous. I had an English-language album and that was a total cut. I didn't have a good feeling about it and it was a big dent in my career, but that's part of it.

Did this album result from your tour with the Mountain Goats, this US cult band around the eccentric but brilliant frontman John Darnielle?
Exactly, yes. He's an artist through and through and it was the best support tour I've ever played. The band was great and their audience was a dream. He still likes to support other artists via Facebook and is a songwriter at heart.

Did you have the concept for the content of "In anderem Licht" in mind at the beginning, or did it emerge from writing the songs?
The concept actually emerged. I let myself be inspired by the themes and let them guide me. I knew it wasn't going to be the most positive album, but it wasn't going to be about myself either. Personally, I always think it will work out somehow, but I have to admit that I'm increasingly doubtful. On the other hand, you can't despair. It's completely different for my daughter's generation. A different dimension. It's really tough and they can't push the future so far away. I deal with this topic in "Bright yellow moon", which is about how I would push a lot of things away if I didn't have a child. Sending children into this world is not so easy either.

Do children make you rethink? Would certain processes for healing the world work faster if those who decide things about the future thought about the future of their children?
I don't really think so. What does it mean to be human and what is the essence of humanity? I have thought a lot about this. Greed is an important factor and I don't exclude myself. Security and one's own wealth are such extreme driving forces that also include the family. Everyone wants to keep their house and possessions and not be put on the back burner. I understand the attitude of vested interests that many right-wing voters have. People have worked for and earned things, but when they are threatened with refugees, they are afraid and put up the fence. The battles for territory outweigh thoughts of children and the future.

Is the "swarm intelligence" mentioned in a song dangerous for you?
No, I see it in a very positive light. It's an anchor of hope for me, where I think that everything will come together. But only after very turbulent times. In November, a month after the massacre in Israel, I was in Egypt and when you talk to the people there, you get a feeling of powerlessness. That's also in the album and we all experience it. I was very happy that there was such a big demonstration for democracy in Germany recently. It was visible and gave hope. Most of the time, you only see the right-wingers on the streets and it was an important sign of cohesion for the symbolic effect alone.

Have you already gotten your daughter involved in activism?
(laughs) She's rather lazy about demonstrations. But of course she hears all the discussions. We've tried to fly less, but is that relevant? Does that even help when you see the big problems in the world? But giving up is not an option either. There is already a dynamic that the left is seen as a party of prohibition and you can no longer fight against that. That's why it makes sense to look personally at what you can and want to do. In the end, we are all part of our system.

Do you really believe that everything can still be okay in the world, or do you have to believe it because you're the mother of a 14-year-old?
Honestly? I think we're driving everything up the wall. I don't want that, of course, and it's not my hope, but there's pretty much everything to suggest it. My theater colleagues went to the Natural History Museum for research purposes. There was a guided tour on the subject of species extinction and I also read the book "The Sixth Extinction" by Elizabeth Kolbert, where she describes various extinction scenarios. Who do we think we are? That we have the right to stay here forever? I don't think this fundamental question gets through to people at all and that's why so little is happening to make the world a better place. In this book, Kolbert describes how humans have always been the biggest plague in the world. Everywhere we have settled, everything has changed massively. Ecosystems have been adapted and animals have been shipped to other continents by sea.

With all these topics and facts, is it sometimes difficult not to become a complete misanthrope?
No, I enjoy the music too much for that. I'm actually also a very positive person and don't despair about it. I still see life as okay. But my concerts are concerts and have nothing to do with activism. I don't like it at all when someone wags their index finger at me and would never do that. I let the songs speak for themselves.

A beautiful song on your album is "Nevertheless, The Music" - is that your mantra? No matter what happens or what may come - there is still the music?
That's a quote from the movie "Stalker" by Tarkowski from the late 70s. It's a very philosophical movie about there being a space in a certain zone where your most secret wishes are fulfilled. A few people philosophize on the way there and when they arrive they say: "Nevertheless, the music remains". Someone once sent me this on Facebook when I was looking for proverbs.

Music connects us, it stays and it touches us. It is my anchor that helps me even in the worst of times. During Corona or the outbreak of war in Ukraine, I often asked myself whether music and theater make sense at all. Art seems so absurd and meaningless in these moments. On the other hand, music is community-building and important. It connects on a non-verbal level and you enter into a dialog. It always has relevance.

If the world really were to end soon-which album would you like to hear soon?
A difficult question, but probably "Blue" by Joni Mitchell. It simply has everything in it, it's great art.

Live at the Volkstheater
Today, on March 13, Barbara Morgenstern will be playing songs from her new album "In anderem Licht" and of course a few classics from the past at the Rote Bar in Vienna's Volkstheater. Tickets are still available at www.oeticket.com and at the box office.