"Krone" interview

Hearts Hearts: “The political was in the air”

How do you put a diffuse world that has gone off the rails into dreamy indie pop songs? The Viennese Hearts Hearts provide the answer on "This Is What The World Needs".

(Bild: Parramatta, Tim Cavadini, Krone KREATIV)

It wasn't the right time to focus solely on love and feel-good songs - so "This Is What The World Needs" became a highly political album that deals with the internal and external view of the world, yet is interspersed between warm electronics and light-footed indie guitars. With this, Hearts Hearts should finally make the deserved leap to international attention.

"Krone": David, Peter Paul - did you start working on "This Is What The World Needs" at the end of the pandemic, or did the new album come about a little more quickly?
David Österle: I can't reconstruct it exactly, but the first steps were taken two and a half to three years ago. In the summer after the last album, the first songwriting session resulted in the first two songs that made it onto the album. "No More" and "Twist My Arm". We wrote an insane amount of material and there are 60-80 ideas in the Dropbox that have been formulated in different ways. We worked on them very intensively.

Was it then difficult to decide on the eleven songs from all these ideas that finally ended up on the album?
Peter Paul Aufreiter: Absolutely. That was also an important step because we quickly got out of hand musically. When the first songs become clear, the others take a direction and you can narrow down the project a bit. 
Österle: But it's also an emotionally difficult process. A lot of songs are written and a lot of good ones that we like fall out. It's not always easy when you are very attached to an idea that is democratically rejected. (laughs) But that's how you have to select, there's no other way. We should work in a more focused way and write fewer songs, but we can't do that. We've also considered posting songs off the album on Instagram and then we always think to ourselves that they're actually great.

Do you sometimes use songs or ideas from older songwriting sessions? For example, material from the last album "Love Club Members"?
Aufreiter: We always promise ourselves that at the end when we're sorting things out. In practice, we never go back to it. Everything stays in the archive. (laughs)

On "Love Club Members" you were still devoted to love and a 70s aesthetic. "This Is What The World Needs" is much more political and socially critical. Did the world situation "force" you to do this?
Österle: That's true. "Love Club Members" was about the retreat to Corona, it was an emotional introspection. With the diffuse world situation, which felt like it consisted only of conflicts, the urge to do something political was there early on. It was supposed to be political throughout, but without being a concept album. When it came to the lyrics, the political element was automatically in the air.

As a band, you are seen and heard in the outside world - does that also come with a certain sense of responsibility?
Aufreiter: Whenever we see each other, we discuss what's on our minds - so it was clear that we would put these discussions into lyrics. I don't see our role as being so big that we have a mandate to get people to engage with it. But we are happy when it happens.

It'snot that easy to write a political album when it feels like a new world catastrophe pops up every two weeks.
Österle: It's difficult to write political lyrics. "Stop Being Poor!" was inspired by Chancellor Nehammer's Burger Sager in his political round and addresses the rampant neoliberalism. Somehow we had to schedule the single, but relatively soon afterwards the Israel-Hamas conflict was much more virulent and this Austrian topic seemed so petty and outdated to us. It's all very difficult.

In view of the heated discussions, is it perhaps a good idea not to write a song about the war in Israel and Palestine?
Österle: Writing about day-to-day politics is very difficult in itself. It's really important for us to take a stand, but it's more effective if it's done from a pause for reflection. The world situation is so diffuse and conflicts so complicated that it's good to take a step back and get an accurate picture. While discussing, we often realized that we have different opinions - this also happens in the middle of interviews. We are four people who are different and think differently. As a solo artist, it's much easier to stand up for your opinion. In a band collective, you have to do justice to the community and the discourse among each other.

Is it good for the band, the song and the collective itself if you have to put yourselves aside as individuals in the band context?
Österle: I've never thought about it myself, but it's a good question. We discuss a lot and that's also one reason why the album is the way it is. The aesthetic discourses were much less present than on "Love Club Members". It was very healthy for the band that we exchanged our opinions so openly. Our songs don't offer a clear solution either, but they do offer observations on the world situation. But we never take out our index finger to wave it around.

Because you mentioned neoliberalism - to what extent can you as a band escape it?
Aufreiter: We make pop music and of course it has been commercialized. But you can still criticize neoliberalism. (laughs) The subject is difficult because we want to pay the people around the band a salary and we want to make a living from the music ourselves, even though we all have other jobs.
Österle: The whole world has been quantified and it's all about numbers on Spotify, Instagram and TikTok. The operators create the portals so that people look at these numbers and they become benchmarks for whether something is working or not. These numbers in turn drive you - whether you like it or not. It's always about getting better and about performance. That is difficult.

Dothe quantification and the need to participate in algorithms take away the freedom of art?
Aufreiter: At the very least, it puts you under pressure to constantly deliver. Spotify is happiest when you publish songs regularly. If you get involved, you should go through with it. If you don't release a new single every six weeks, then it stresses you out immensely. You're in a mindset where you're thinking that you actually want to make an album and not just your own songs. It's very strange.

A key track on the album seems to be "Mr. Maybe" - is that a direct nod to Austrian domestic politics, which is very often not very decisive?
Aufreiter: Not just Austrian politics. (laughs) "Mr. Maybe" exists everywhere else too.
Österle: We discussed for a long time when we should put Boris Johnson on the single cover and in the end it was Boris Johnson. It generally speaks to the fact that politicians always want to please everyone and never commit themselves. We need a lot more fierce determination to seriously tackle pressing issues like climate change. But I'm also very familiar with this phenomenon in my own life, because I don't like saying no to certain things. In my private life, it doesn't really matter if people like me less because of it. In global politics, however, it has a negative impact on society as a whole. Many artists no longer dare to take a clear stance because many discourses are so acrimonious that people prefer to stay quiet.

(Bild: Tim Cavadini)

It's interesting that you deliberately made a political album, while almost all artists out there are looking to escape the harshness of everyday life through music and are clearly moving away from it.
Aufreiter: The fact that the melodies in the songs are so warm and accessible, for example, was calculated. If you fall into it comfortably, you can perceive the lyrics more easily and think about them.
Österle: I always had the idea of a Trojan horse, that we could comfortably sneak into people's minds and spread our criticism. We liked that concept very much. Plus the ambivalence of catchy, warm music and harder lyrics.

Politicians have long ceased to be role models for people - even less so for young people. Does this role now fall to artists like you?
Aufreiter: I wouldn't give us that much credit. (laughs) We don't think that much of it.
Österle: Artists have an extreme responsibility in our society, that's clear. But I don't know how much of a responsibility we have ourselves. But I am pleased that songs with a political background are doing well. "Ikarus" is the song that most people know about us and everyone is happy when it is played at concerts. It gives the nice feeling that it's still important to express yourself politically. If we were talking about the summer in Ibiza, the song would have fewer listeners. It's nice to see when the message gets through.

I guess it depends which summer in Ibiza you would sing about ...
Österle: (laughs) That's true, you could also make a song like that ambivalent. Artists are now playing a bigger role again, as they used to with writers like Grass or Enzensberger. That stopped between the 70s and 90s and suddenly NGOs were in this role. Enzensberger once said: "We lost Heinrich Böll, but we gained Amnesty International". Today, musicians have become extremely important as individuals. If Taylor Swift says or would say something, she has an immense role model effect and a corresponding responsibility. It's a bit different for us, of course. (laughs) 
Aufreiter: The more audience you have, the more complex it becomes and the more opinions clash. That's why I think it's all the cooler when bands take a clear stance - Wanda, for example. There may well be homophobic people in the audience, but if they speak out clearly against it, it has an effect.

Does the will to write politically increase in general when the world looks more and more like a shambles?
Aufreiter: When we first met as a band many years ago, Radiohead were our biggest consensus. They were always political, but they packaged the lyrics well in images and subtle messages. We always had the political idea, sometimes we just didn't feel like it as much. This time it was clear that we wanted to say something.
Österle: The question is always how directly you address something. With Radiohead, there were the images and we used to address topics such as the pressure to perform, but veiled in strange linguistic images. That was great fun, but now it's about writing more clearly and openly, no longer hiding behind convolutions. That certainly makes this album a bit more political, because we are clearer.

Does the increasing directness of the lyrics also require the years of experience that you have been able to gather in the meantime?
Aufreiter: I would agree with that straight away. You find your way into this direction over time and classic demo slogans are difficult. If you repeat them often, they weaken, so you have to find the fine line between statements that are not too coded, but also not too empty. This requires a certain amount of experience.
Österle: The four of us work equally on the lyrics. On the last two albums, I did most of the writing, but not anymore. This automatically makes the lyrics clearer and more direct, because the others have to know their way around when you add a sentence yourself. If I hermetically seal off my ideas, it doesn't lead to anything.

But when four different people with four different views and opinions write together, I imagine it's quite difficult to find a result.
Österle: That's why everything takes so long with us. It's a slow and laborious process and we often turn every sentence around if it's not understood by everyone. Working on the language is crucial to what comes out in terms of content. When someone brings in a new linguistic image, it's often about something else and you can feel how the texts and content change. That's what art in general is all about - form and content interact and move.
Aufreiter: I do have the feeling that more cooks make better porridge. (laughs)

Musically, you alternate between electronic and guitar-heavy numbers. "I'm Not An Animal" even starts with a pure grunge part. You offer a wide range of styles and sounds - that also reminds me a bit of Radiohead.
Österle: That happens automatically for me. Some people in the band struggle with it, but when four people write equally, the palette ranges from grunge to indie to electropop. It happens to us with every album, even if we often discuss clearer ideas. 
Aufreiter: As the music was less of an issue than the lyrics this time, there was no urge to include certain references to the 70s. Each song shone in its own right and if it was good, it was included. However, the different producers have diversified the sound even more. Narou makes a clubbier house sound, Sophie Lindinger clearly comes from the indie area. Lukas Klement, on the other hand, is back in a more pop context. So we were able to see our music pushed more strongly in these directions.
Österle: When it comes to compressing and categorizing everything, it's not that easy to find a sensible order. We think until the very last moment that we want to cover a few more corners with new songs, but then at some point it's no longer possible. (laughs)

What is "I'm Not An Animal" about?
Österle: The song is directly influenced by the war in Ukraine. At the time, it was about the reservists being called up and we discussed in the rehearsal room what that would mean if we had to do it with a weapon in our hands. "I'm Not An Animal" refers to a person who doesn't see themselves as an animal and has no business being in a war, but is compulsively conscripted. This idea applies not only to reservists, but also to female soldiers who have not determined their own fate. That is the emotional background to this song.

Does fear or hope actually dominate "This Is What The World Needs"?
Aufreiter: We're kind of at odds about that too. (laughs) The question of hope always comes up and changes from day to day, even for me. Sometimes I'm optimistic that things could change. Other days, it's hard to find hope. That's why it's difficult to say whether the album is hopeful. But it would be nice if it gave listeners hope.
Österle: When I look at some social issues in a long-term context, I definitely notice an improvement. For example, women's rights from 100 years ago to today - that's a big difference. But even this train of thought is not the same for everyone in the band. That would be my view. But if - as is currently the case in the USA - abortions are discussed again and the right to them is questioned, that is of course a huge step backwards. But the long-term perspective gives hope in some areas. Even if there are relapses, issues pay off and the world gradually becomes a better place. Today, we no longer know what to be afraid of everywhere because there are fires virtually everywhere. There are people who can press the red button and the whole world falls apart - that's a reality. You can't deny this state of fear - no matter how much hope you have.

In the song "Pullover" you sing about the "constant distractions". Does that mean that you always like to be distracted by everything in everyday life so that you don't make important decisions or do things that need to be done - also with a view to improving the world?
Österle: It's more about the fact that you tend to constantly overthink things and can't bring yourself to make a decision. Overthinking prevents you from taking action and the distractions here are more about struggling with not being able to grasp and enjoy a moment. A good example of this is when you're constantly running around on vacation with your phone and taking photos of everything, but you can't grasp and internalize what you're seeing and experiencing.

So, do you put your phone away often enough?
Aufreiter: I don't even try. I'm long lost by then. (laughs)
Österle: I don't see myself as a big cell phone person, but if I take myself by the nose, I realize that I have it in my hand quite often.

The song "Happy Ending" at least suggests that there is a hopeful outlook into a hopefully better future at the end of the album ...
Österle: In a way, yes. We wanted to end the album with an emphatically happy song and that's what the title suggested. But it's not the case that everything will be fine and we don't want to convey that message.

Did working and writing on the album release various blockages for you? 
Aufreiter: Music is a good way of addressing certain things on a larger scale. It's a nice process that also helps a lot internally. If there's already a song, we don't talk about a topic so much anymore.
Österle: It's a different form of engagement that is good for us as individuals and as a band. There's a difference between letting yourself be taken in by the confusion conveyed by the media and trying to find your own position and writing a song about it in the rehearsal room. I really appreciate the fact that we deal with everything openly and network with different views.

Tour through Austria
Hearts Hearts are on tour across Austria with their new album "This Is What The World Needs". They will be playing at ARGEKultur Salzburg on April 19, at Bäckerei Innsbruck on April 20, at the Dynamo Festival at Spielboden in Dornbirn on May 25, at Kammerlichtspiele in Klagenfurt on October 25, at the Orpheum in Graz on October 26 as part of "125 Years of the Orpheum" and at Arena Wien on November 7. You can find all the dates, tickets and further information about the concerts at www.heartshearts.net.