"Krone" interview

Sum 41: Farewell to a punk rock legend

The current version of Sum 41 with guitarist Dave Baksh (2nd from left) and bassist Jason "Cone" McCaslin (right).

(Bild: Travis Shinn)

At this year's Nova Rock, Canadian punk rockers Sum 41 played their very last concert in Austria in front of an impressive backdrop. After 28 years, Deryck Whibley and co. are closing the chapter to pursue new challenges. We take a look back with guitarist Dave Baksh and bassist Jason "Cone" McCaslin.

Around the millennium of 2000, punk rock was back as strongly as it had last been in 1994. Established acts such as Bad Religion, Green Day and The Offspring impressed with their good work, while younger combos such as Blink-182, Simple Plan, New Found Glory and Sum 41 won the hearts of the "American Pie" generation and also the charts. The latter were not only convincing with their pop orientation, but also knew how to play with thick guitars on the early classic albums "All Killer No Filler" (2001) and "Does This Look Infected?" (2002) with thick guitars and gave the sound an unmistakable heavy metal note. Over the years, Sum 41 became more conceptual ("Chuck", 2004), bigger and more broadly effective - but also more scandalous.

Frontman Deryck Whibley hit the headlines with his short-lived celebrity love affair with Avril Lavigne, ongoing back health problems and full-blown alcoholism, which tested the band to the limit between 2010 and 2015. They overcame the crises together and "13 Voices", released in 2016, summed up the darkness that had spread around the band with an unusually heavy sound.

Over the last few years, the band has been touring the big festival stages and, with the career-spanning double album "Heaven :x: Hell", created a work that should not herald the end. However, songwriter and frontman Whibley realized during the creative process that, at 44, he wanted to concentrate on other things in life and is now laying the Canadian punk rock legend to rest. However, the back door for a reunion in the distant future will probably remain open ...

"Krone": Dave, Cone - all good things come to an end at some point. You will play the irrevocable last concerts of your career with Sum 41 in January 2025 and then break up the band for good. How does it feel when the farewell tour comes so quickly?
Dave Baksh: Correct, we're playing our very last gig in Toronto on January 30th, then the chapter is closed. Anyway, I find it hard to imagine that Cone and I will be sitting on a park bench in felt slippers feeding pigeons. (laughs) At the moment it doesn't feel like the end because we're constantly on the road and on the bus every day.
Cone McCaslin: The concerts are just great fun. Of course, we know that every city and every festival is the last time we'll visit and we soak up the atmosphere as best we can. There have of course been times with Sum 41 when a concert felt like a Monday at a normal job, but that's not the case on this tour. When you know that you're playing Nova Rock for the last time, you naturally approach things differently.
Baksh: In the past, if I didn't play a particularly good concert, then I resolved to do better next time and throw myself into it even more. Now the approach is different. I take a deep breath and visualize that it's my very last time at every stop. That makes the concerts a lot better because we are aware of it. I no longer let myself be so unsettled, but enjoy every moment.

On a farewell tour, you play the great classics and you have plenty of them. On the other hand, a few weeks ago you also presented a strong last sign of life with the double album "Heaven :x: Hell". Is it probably not so easy to integrate something into a setlist?
Baksh: That's the beauty of this band and of course a luxury problem. At festivals like Nova Rock we have to scale things down a bit, but we still play a few new songs and are excited to see how they go down with people everywhere.
McCaslin: Putting together a setlist is really hard. We've written 20 new songs that we think are really good and that go down well with people, but of course the fans want to hear the old stuff as well.

The "Heaven" side sounds like pop-punk and is reminiscent of your early days, while the "Hell" side is heavier and more aggressive, reminiscent of the increased heavy metal influences of the "newer" Sum 41. Wasn't it difficult to compose again the way you did a long time ago?
Baksh: When Deryck writes songs, he just lets the music flow naturally. That's a great talent that he has, because many others try to squeeze this or that part into an overall concept to make it work. This often seems forced and is never the case with Deryck. The new songs also sound very natural. Writing 20 songs and keeping the quality so high is quite an achievement.

Over the last 30 years or so, you have helped to write part of the history of punk rock music. You've also always adapted and expanded your sound, which hasn't always met with approval. How important was it that you challenged yourselves with every album?
McCaslin: We never recorded any of our albums twice and always tried to move into new territories. We got darker and more aggressive quite early on, pushing the boundaries for ourselves and trying out new styles. That also influenced the longevity of the band, because if we had kept repeating ourselves, it would have become boring and we would have questioned the project sooner. Success alone doesn't make you happy. Of course we've had better and worse albums, but that's part of a career. It was always more important to us to challenge ourselves than to continue a successful formula.
Baksh: We are very grateful to be a part of the collective that has allowed this kind of music to grow and flourish and have a bit of an impact on the musical world in general. In the early 2000s, really great bands came on the scene that took the genre forward with us from those bands from the 80s that paved the way for us.

Even on your early albums you could hear the twin guitars that made Iron Maiden so famous. You've always been a bit different from the other punk rock bands.
Baksh: When we started out back then, there were very few bands that were able to stand out from the rest of the genre and enjoy major success. It was mainly those bands that added their own distinctive touch to punk rock. If you were different, then you stood out. More than 20 years after our first successes, we now have the advantage that artists have much more control over their music thanks to the internet and can market themselves better. We also really appreciate this phase of our career.
McCaslin: Times were different back then because people categorized. There were metallers, punks, hip-hoppers - today that's no longer an issue at all. There are bands that squeeze four different genres into one song and it still sounds natural.
Baksh: I don't know if we've developed to such an extreme. But we certainly write songs in a more versatile and broader way than we did in the early years. There used to be bands that couldn't be tied into a corset. Here at Nova Rock, for example, Body Count played on the same day as us. Guitarist Ernie C was one of the guys who showed me as a teenager that it was possible to turn a hobby into a career.
McCaslin: Bands like the Beastie Boys or NOFX also mixed styles early on and certainly always changed. There were some before us, but it wasn't as common back then as it is today.

The German rock legends Scorpions were one of the first bands to announce a "farewell tour". That was well over ten years ago and they are still playing live incessantly. Is it possible that your farewell won't really be a farewell?
Baksh: We've never talked about getting back together after the last show in Toronto for festival appearances or individual concerts. I have absolutely no idea what the future has in store for us, but we've never talked beyond the last show. There are absolutely no plans in that regard.

You won't be putting music aside after Sum 41. Are there any concrete plans for the near future?
McCaslin: We've been musicians for as long as we can remember. It's hard to imagine a new career as electricians after 2025, even though that would certainly be a nice profession. (laughs) We're all going to stay in music, but I don't have a specific plan yet.
Baksh: I have gigabytes full of melody lines, hooks and ideas that I can sift through meticulously at my leisure. Like a comedian writing down a joke in the middle of the night, I have spontaneous ideas at the most absurd times and record them on the dictaphone. When I dig and organize, I'm sure music with people I've never worked with will come out. But now the focus is on the last few months with Sum 41, until we say goodbye for good at the end of January.

Is it possible that people will be able to hear you in completely different genres away from punk rock?
Baksh: That's more than realistic.
McCaslin: After so many years with Sum 41, it would also be natural for us to move in other directions. Maybe we'll even do a jazz album one day, you should never say never. (laughs)
Baksh: I developed a serious and honest love for reggae some time ago. I can well imagine that the next project could take a turn in that direction.

Is there a special moment that you will always remember in a positive way with the band? And vice versa: What was the absolute low point in 28 years of Sum 41?
McCaslin: When Deryck's drinking problem around the album "Scream Bloody Murder" became unbearable in 2011, the band was really on the edge. There were a few moments when it wasn't clear whether and how a future would be possible. But together we fought our way out of this dark phase and got back on track. There were so many great moments, it's almost impossible to name just one. For me, it's incredible that this band has survived for so long.

We got together in 1996 and have managed almost 30 years - how many acts can claim that? The very last concert will be my highlight. Ending a career in front of a sold-out arena at home, I think that will be unbeatable. On the one hand I'm dreading the last concert, but on the other hand it will be the absolute highlight.

Baksh: My darkest moment was in 2006 when I left the band. I wasn't having fun on tour then, nor at home. It was a bit of a vicious circle and I had to take a step away from the band to figure out what was causing this unhappiness in me and what was making my life so unhappy. This process took almost a decade. When I returned to the band in 2015 and it was received with joy by all the other members, it really brought me back to life.

In between, I did a lot for myself and with other projects and realized how tough and ruthless the music industry is in Canada if you're not successful. I thought that music wasn't for me, but I got a call from Deryck, we met up and two years later I was back on stage with the guys. So for me, the worst moment became the very best.