ÖVP veteran leaves

Sobotka: “You can’t govern with Kickl!”

Outgoing National Council President Wolfgang Sobotka talks about enemies and friends in politics. And he explains why Herbert Kickl will not work in a government with the ÖVP.

(Bild: APA/GEORG HOCHMUTH)

Outgoing National Council President Wolfgang Sobotka (ÖVP) reaffirms his rejection of FPÖ leader Herbert Kickl in a major farewell interview with the "Krone" newspaper. And he explains why he played the bruiser and incurred so much dislike from the opposition.

"Krone": Mr. Sobotka, why did you actually leave? You seem as if you would still like to stay in politics?
Wolfgang Sobotka: A year ago, I asked myself this question. It's better to make the decision about the timing yourself than to wait until everyone is asking the question: When will the time finally come for Wolfgang Sobotka to step down?

The 68-year-old Lower Austrian Wolfgang Sobotka has often been the target of hostility from his political opponents.

(Bild: APA/EVA MANHART, APA/ROLAND SCHLAGER, Krone KREATIV)

You were always a very eloquent politician who often played the bruiser. Why did you enjoy doing the things that many in the ÖVP were too embarrassed to do?
I think that every head of government or governor needs someone in the government or in the party who formulates things that the boss cannot formulate in this way. I took on this role for Erwin Pröll in the Lower Austrian state government. As his right-hand man, I also had to do some unpleasant things. But I did that out of conviction. The top representative must be able to rely on the team working and that someone will also tackle unpleasant things. That only works if you are convinced that it is worth standing up for that person. I had this feeling with Erwin Pröll, with Sebastian Kurz and now also with Karl Nehammer. Conversely, I didn't have the feeling with Reinhold Mitterlehner that he meant well by the ÖVP.

You were the man for the rough stuff?
I wouldn't use that term. I was in favor of clear words to formulate positions. Or to clearly say no for once. I was also in favor of verbal attacks when it was necessary to stand up against impossibilities. Politics thrives on confrontation and differing opinions. This creates a profile. Without a profile, no party can survive in the long term.

There was a lot of excitement about the golden grand piano in the new parliament.

(Bild: picturedesk.com/Georges Schneider / picturedesk.com)

Is the style in which you did politics dying out? Are you a political dinosaur?
My style of politics involves a certain amount of tension. It's not always easy to deal with. I found it easy because I don't define myself through politics. At home, I take off my work skirt and am a completely different person. That makes it easier to deal with the demands of work. I don't feel personally offended when intense situations come my way.

(Bild: picturedesk.com/helmut graf / Heute / picturedesk.com)

If you enjoy confrontation so much, were you the right person for the office of President of the National Council?
I was never interested in arguing, I was always passionate about the cause. Once during my term of office, I apologized for an emotional lapse. The role I was assigned in the U Committee was a political issue. I always decided according to the recommendation of the trial judge and never against him. I was always very much guided by the letter of the law, which is perhaps why I allowed less to pass. The U-Committee was supposed to shed light on the facts. But the U-Committee never did that. The U-Committee is the opposition's sharpest sword. It has become a political instrument. That is a pity.

Wolfgang Sobotka

The 68-year-old Lower Austrian has often polarized, but has also made a difference. He completed the major parliamentary reorganization and made headlines with a golden wing. The opposition did not like his chairmanship of the sub-committees.

The fact that you were always in last place in the confidence index never bothered you. Can you sleep well?
You can sleep very well. When I see that 35 to 45 percent have a good opinion of me, I can live with that. If you look at the current election results, that's a good result. Maybe the glass isn't half full for me, but only a good third .... (laughs).

Wolfgang Sobotka with Minister Karoline Edtstadler: The 68-year-old native of Lower Austria can also be charming.

(Bild: Andreas Lepsi/LEPSIFOTO)

The ÖVP has already been in a coalition with the Freedom Party twice. You also played a significant role in the last turquoise-blue government. What has changed since the FPÖ became the ÖVP's enemy?
The party did, but not the voters. There is a difference between what the voters want to express with their vote and what the functionaries see as their self-image. What has changed? Not differentiating themselves from the extreme right-wing fringe. Anyone who describes the Identitarians as an NGO is not acceptable. Anyone who sees Europe as a threat is unacceptable. In this respect, the FPÖ has changed a lot since Strache. Anyone who trivializes pandemics and tries to fight them with deworming agents has left a base. The Ibiza video was a turning point. There has been a change in the functionary class.

If you criticize the FPÖ's layer of functionaries, can this party be given the post of 1st National Council President?
It will be necessary for us to follow the customs of parliament. It is up to the party with the most votes to submit a proposal for the 1st President of the National Council. Then there will be a secret ballot and we will see whether the MPs can accept the FPÖ proposal.

Did you have repeated conflicts with Doris Bures?
We had our differences of opinion. She always insisted on adhering to the rules of the game that were important to her and didn't appreciate some of the things I thought were right. But you have to be able to deal with criticism. I have a very good relationship with her today.

That sounds very grand coalition-like ....
No, we don't intend anything, we are committed to Parliament. She is doing a great job in her area, but so is my colleague Norbert Hofer from the FPÖ. That is very sensible.

When you look back, would you admit that you made mistakes?
What is a mistake? Where I have the right to decide, where I didn't try hard enough to keep everyone on board at all times, and perhaps to throw a spanner in the works, then you can say yes. That's what I should have done.

The conversion of parliament into a kind of temple of democracy. It has something museum-like about it. Is that your big footnote in the history book?
The design of the building in the visitor center. The building was already a jewel before. The restoration worked wonderfully and the fact that we kept to the prices is also a success. And the fact that unanimous decisions were made is also a success. But for me, the democracy workshop was particularly important. Everything is barrier-free. And the fact that all ethnic groups have found a home is a footnote. And the fact that we are so strongly involved in the fight against anti-Semitism with the Simon Wiesenthal Prize is particularly important. I have tried to bring out these strengths. And to open the house to everyone.

(Bild: SEPA/SEPA.Media | Martin Juen)

How should things continue in Austria? A three-party coalition?
Now it's up to the Federal President. It is customary to entrust the First President with the task of sounding out the options. We will see what form this takes. The Federal Party Chairman's stance on Mr. Kickl is clear. It is a rejection of the person and I share that 100 percent. It's about his attitude. And as Interior Minister he destroyed the BVT. A person who describes things in a way that suits him cannot be trusted. How can you form a government with someone like that?

Everyone wants to govern

(Bild: APA/HELMUT FOHRINGER)

However, the ÖVP's stance puts it in a position where it can't make tactical decisions .... It is at the mercy of the SPÖ ...
 The Chancellor has always made it clear that he has only ruled out Kickl. Not the party per se. The same applies to Ms. Gewessler in the Greens. As a centrist party, the ÖVP has already formed coalitions with many parties. We have been involved in leadership roles as well as in the second row. We do not serve only one side from the outset.

Does the ÖVP have a subscription to government participation?
No party goes into an election to be in opposition. Everyone wants to govern and make a difference. It is grotesque to accuse us of wanting to govern. We always wanted and want to shape things.

You were an enthusiastic "Kurzianer" against Christian Kern ...
 Kern couldn't do it. He was caught up in his vanity and couldn't accept figures, and we don't just serve one side from the outset.

What distinguishes Sebastian Kurz from Karl Nehammer?
They are very different types. What they have in common is the will to shape something. Not wanting to be something. I can't support just posturing and not treating employees properly.

What are you doing now?
I read a lot. I recently read a book about wokeness. Where do certain developments come from, that interests me? Then I'm at an ÖVP think tank. I write my speeches, but I'm not pursuing a current project.