"Krone" interview

Nits: “The band turned into a serious job”

Weird and independent for 50 years: The Dutch dark poppers Nits around mastermind Henk Hofstede (center).

(Bild: Wim van de Hulst)

Guitar pop, new wave, jazz, avant-garde with electronics - there is hardly a style that the Dutch band Nits have not tried out for 50 years. The special pop band is coming to Vienna's Theater Akzent to celebrate their anniversary. In this interview, frontman Henk Hofstede tells us about his winding career path, the Vienna of the last 40 years and the secret of longevity.

"Krone": Henk, in a few days you will be playing a 50th anniversary show with the Nits at Vienna's Theater Akzent. Would you have thought 50 years ago that you would be giving an interview like this today?
HenkHofstede: Never, it's impossible to look that far into the future. I had a plan in my head to keep this band alive for a few years. That's actually the normal way. You enjoy it, you do it and at some point you stop to pursue a serious job. But then the band became this serious job. (laughs) That was the big surprise. You start from nothing, fool around a bit and don't think about the future. No big plan and certainly no career ambitions. In fact, I think the purpose of pop music has always been not to have a career.

Fooling around is particularly welcome in art because it maintains a certain lightness that many people inevitably lose over the years. With the Nits, you have explored so many different genres and territories that you can really speak of a great variability of sound. Was it essential for you to maintain this light-footedness and curiosity?
Definitely, but of course there are also moments of doubt. Where you're not sure whether the step you took was one too many or whether you've gone too far. Maintaining curiosity and always wanting to know what's around the next corner has always kept us going. If a pop or rock career becomes too serious, then you should get out of it as quickly as possible, because then it's no longer healthy.

How important is the aspect of self-irony? So taking your work seriously, but not yourself and your bandmates?
Humor is extremely important and it also protects you from the real world, which can be very complicated, difficult and disappointing. We have always made sure that we protect this delicate plant of lightness and humor. We have created our own world. It's nothing when it comes to the big wide world, but for us it's everything.

Speaking of the many sound leaps in your career - was it always particularly important to you to break away from outside expectations?
Of course, because when you start to listen to others, you start to lose yourself at the same time. That's why we always had problems with record companies. Once you have success with something, they want the same thing again and again, but that's not interesting artistically. They want a successful copy of yourself, but I can't give that. I don't want to and I can't. Art is so delicate and important, it must never become a routine. It may work for some people, but not for me. Before I bow to any expectations, I'd rather go fishing or skiing. There are so many things you can do instead of surrendering to outside decisions.

Has that always been the most important path for the Nits? That you sacrificed a successful career for curiosity and experimentation? You may have lost money, but you've gained freedom and self-respect.
That sums it up pretty well. I don't even know if we sacrificed anything, that might be the wrong word. We were never interested in this kind of career because we love adventure. Creating new things, exploring. That goes for a lot of people. Actors, painters, musicians, writers. It would be impossible to keep repeating myself.

Around 13 years after you founded the band, you had a hit single in the 80s with "In The Dutch Mountains", which made you really famous throughout Europe. Was that a decisive moment when the question arose as to whether it would be better to follow this path?
We actually followed that path for quite a while, but when we were fresh in our minds again, we wrote new material that sounded different. We didn't get stuck here either. At the end of the 80s, of course, we realized that we were being heard all over Europe, but also in Canada, New York and Tokyo. It felt like we were part of the big business, but that didn't make us happy. We had so many TV shows where we had to do playback - terrible. It's exciting at first and you feel honored, but we realized that there's no other way. You have to give in to it and from then on I didn't want to do it anymore. We then quickly did other things that weren't as successful - but they were more interesting, more colorful and more adventurous. It was inevitable for my own soul to go down this path.

Is the limelight a kind of curse for you? Do you shun it?
I don't like being the center of attention, it scares me sometimes and doesn't suit me as a person. I'm so glad we were never really famous. Even back home in the Netherlands, we were just always there, but nobody invited me on local TV quiz shows. That's the best proof that you're not a celebrity. (laughs) Although - sometimes a request has come in, but I've always turned it down. I'm only on board when it's about the music. But not because someone knows me or because they want me to add my two cents somewhere else. We have enough celebrities in Holland, I don't have to be one. I prefer to sit in the studio and work on music while the world keeps turning out there.

That's interesting, because nowadays you often get the feeling that someone would rather be famous than talented. So fame via TikTok or Instagram seems to be more important to some than writing a really good song. A worrying development.
But I'm still very optimistic because I know a lot of young and talented people who still have the spirit of the past and just want to be good. They pack their instruments in the van, drive to England or Austria and play in front of five or 50 people - they don't care because they love the music so much. That's the path we've taken and I appreciate it. It's about you and your song material. It's about your enjoyment of the music. Fame can come with it, of course, but it should never be the center of your life. A lot of people chase fame and quick money, then they get lucky, but when that lucky streak is over, you have nothing and you're left standing there. You in your empty shell. The love of songwriting, music or performing should always be at the forefront. Anything else is not sustainable.

Did songwriting become an addiction for you in your early days? Did you quickly realize that you would put everything into this passion?
It was the only way. It's not about choices or forks in the road, it's about what you can do and what you love. I've worked with a lot of other musicians over the years and learned that people work very differently to me. But for me, I only have one path that I can describe. It's perhaps more chaotic and based more on intuition than logic, but it suits me and that's okay.

You've always looked to the side with side projects and collaborations. It's not just that the Nits have often changed sonically - you've always been happy to break out of the band corset.
That's also incredibly important. We've all always done that, and I speak for everyone involved with the Nits. We looked for our own adventures. For example, I feel very strongly connected to film music and videos as such. I paint and film more and more because I have an art school background. Painting and visuals have always inspired me a lot. There are great bands that only make music and don't look left or right. But that wouldn't be for me. I have more interests and passions and I want to live them out. Opening my eyes to other art forms has also changed my songwriting.

Do you visualize your songs early on?
Maybe, I don't really know. I've never worked according to a plan. Things happen as they happen and in a band you're suddenly confronted with people who want to have their say and show you the way. The sound has to be like this or that, the lyrics could be different, what about the video clips? Do you really want to do it this way? But I don't let anyone talk me into it and I'm very firm in my decisions.

Is there a sonic foundation that serves as a fixed base for your experiments? A kind of safety net from which you can go in any direction, because you always find your way back there when you need to?
I always try to start from scratch with every album, but once you have a history as a band, that's actually impossible. We've always been very careful about changing, trying out different instruments and not losing ourselves in the process. It's always about avoiding routines as much as possible. That's difficult, because you're often tired or not strict enough with yourself - then the routine sets in. You have to be aware that you get rusty from time to time. We are now like an old building and also need protection and renovation. (laughs) Otherwise we'll collapse and be ruined. We feel like a 100-year-old house that is still modern and fresh. We have to keep this freshness.

But running a band for 50 years is quite an achievement. How many bands manage that? The Rolling Stones perhaps ...
Probably not that many, in Holland we still have Golden Earring, who had to break up due to illness. The band was around for more than 50 years and it's a shame that it had to end like that. They were about 16 when they started, we were already in our 20s at the beginning. A lot of bands celebrate 50 years but have often been broken up for 30 years in between, if they're honest. (laughs) We've been playing for 50 years.

But passion alone can't keep a band going for 50 years. You have to understand each other, get on with each other, make unpopular decisions and sometimes put yourself aside for something bigger. What has always driven you over the decades?
Above all, you have to leave each other alone a lot, because you spend a lot of time very close together. It's like friendships. You enjoy them, but you need a lot of distance and space. We work and travel together a lot, we have to be professional about it. Above all, you have to allow yourself to have friendships outside of the band corset so that you don't get stuck in a circle. A band is like a small village where everyone knows everyone else, there's only one religion but no secrets. It's very important not to let this feeling get the better of you. It's good and important that we all have a life outside the Nits.

You have always lived in Amsterdam, but because of your profession you are a constantly traveling nomad. To what extent does this life inspire your art and the inspiration for it?
That's the beauty of the job. We started traveling the world at the beginning of the 80s. We still saw Berlin with the Wall and were often on the road in the GDR. Then the Wall came down and the world changed. Berlin anyway. The city was no longer like it used to be, it felt like we were somewhere completely different. But it's a bit like that everywhere - even in Vienna or Paris. When I walk around Vienna, I still find the corners that I loved in the 80s, but many things are completely different. We played in Helsinki for the first time in 1982 and the city still felt like Russia. After 7 pm, the bridges were folded up and you couldn't do anything anymore. There was no youth culture and we couldn't get into the few discos. Today, the city has nothing to do with back then. All these experiences inevitably find their way into the music. It's hard to explain, but when I write songs, reflections from my life and my past always flow into them. There is the past and there is the present. Maybe it has to do with age and increasing experience. It's a nice bouquet of experiences.

So your discography is something of a diary?
Absolutely. Sometimes I refer to albums and songs of ours to remind myself of things. That can definitely be helpful.

When you have time in Vienna to feel and experience the city, can you go back in your head or do you perceive it very much in the present?
I'm not a traditionalist, but I like to be where I've been before. This morning I went to a coffee house that I always go to in Vienna to have a coffee and then an iced coffee, as I always do. I spend a lot of time in Spain and there, an iced coffee is prepared very differently, almost like something from another world. These differences give me structure. In Vienna, I also visit the Kunsthistorisches Museum and it's arranged differently than it used to be. So I remembered where something was, but I couldn't find it anymore. The world is changing and that's a good thing. You just have to be open to keep up with it.

Your home city of Amsterdam is very lively. Tourists overrun it, coffee shops are popular, there's a lively nightlife. I wouldn't consider that an inspiration for the Nits' music.
I've never left the city and have always lived here, even if that seems a bit strange, even to me. But maybe this life does inspire me? I'm not even far from where I was born. Maybe I'm a traditionalist after all, because I can't imagine leaving the city.

Maybe you just need the stability because life as a touring artist is otherwise so unstable?
The city is so beautiful and that's why it attracts so many people. It's a bit too many now, we locals all know that, but there are moments when this city still seems innocent and unspoiled to me. I cycle most of the time and when you cycle for a few hours early in the morning or in the evening, the beauty of this city unfolds before you. It's alive, but it's a bit too commercialized, which I think is a shame. We are also losing our independence and the quality of our own stores. Everything is globalized, the same chains everywhere.

It's a problem that all major cities in Europe have to deal with.
We had so many great second-hand stores. Almost my entire wardrobe is from these stores, but in the last few years alone we've lost twelve of these stores because they can no longer keep up. In Antwerp or Brussels it's a bit different, the Belgians aren't as easily lulled by globalized chains as we Dutch are. That's why we have so many stores where you can buy these little rubber ducks. Why the hell? We're not children, it's just awful. The places where these stores are used to be bookshops or record stores. But they can no longer afford the rent and are dying out. Today there are restaurant chains and duck stores. I feel like Ray Davies moaning about the decline of England. (laughs)

But can't you put that in relation to the music? Successful music is music that sounds like music that's been done many times before. A band like the Nits have to fight hard for their audience because they are independent and different.
That's true and sometimes it pains me when I see how much crappy music makes so much money. It can be frustrating, but maybe I'm just too old for that. I often tell myself that I shouldn't worry so much about it. Let go, it doesn't matter. But maybe I'm right? But we need a balance between art and commerce. It's up to everyone to ensure that this balance is always maintained. If you are interested in artistically high-quality music, then you have to have the chance to find it. Today you are confronted head-on with so many commercial things that you have to actively find the small doors to escape. But that's not how art should work.

Many people don't have time in their everyday lives to actively search so deeply for this art ...
They don't have time or don't take the time. That's a sign of the times. When I was growing up, I would run to the nearest record store and spend an entire afternoon listening and searching. I discovered things with the help of people who worked there or customers themselves. Strangely enough, Spotify puts the whole world of music at our feet, but the company tells you what to listen to. It can't work like that in the long term.

You emphasize in many interviews that you're proactively interested in modern music and that you're always giving tips from the pop and rock genres. It's not a matter of course that someone with a 50-year career in the music business still listens to new things.
I always watch the BBC programs with Jools Holland, and I also have daughters who are addicted to music and of course have very different tastes to me. My youngest is the one who runs to all the festivals. When she comes back, she plays me her discoveries and we talk about them. The funny thing is that she often tells me that the best new thing for her is always something that has been around for a long time. She recently saw Patti Smith and said she was the highlight of the festival. (laughs) Without me doing anything! She discovered that herself. There's a TV show in Holland where you perform as an established band with young musicians and take on a kind of patronage. That's a great concept. Also because you can see how much talent and passion is still there.

Will there actually be a new Nits studio album if we're already talking so much about music?
We recently released a mini-album based on a sad story. But of course we've written more songs and we're thinking about releasing a second mini-album. It's not about the fire in our studio that burned instruments and memories. It's about traveling and getting out of crises and moving on. Let's see, we haven't made a final decision yet.

You are a particularly good observer of things. Is that an important asset when you're a songwriter?
I think so, but there are so many ways to write songs. My songs are usually really born out of observation. But there are also songs that are just about the joys of life and don't belong to a story at all. Then there are dark albums, like those by Nick Cave, where he observationally reaches into his deepest inner spheres. Leonard Cohen, for example, is responsible for the darkest albums in music history. At the other end of the scale are the early Beatles with their sheer inexhaustible joie de vivre. The songwriting is incredibly broad and versatile.

What color would the Nits be if Cohen wrote the darkest albums?
We would be somewhere in between. I've always been fascinated by blackness and the end of the dark line. On the other hand, I love the impressionistic and the light moments. Monet, for example, lives from light and color - the Nits are exactly between these poles. I'm thinking about writing an album about my grandfather. And about the world as it was in 1910. That's another story, but the appeal is there to tackle this project. You have to do a lot of research and trace the family tree back a long way. The old family members have almost all gone, now I'm the old one. So I ask my nephews and the younger ones what memories they have of the family. My family's history in Amsterdam began with my grandfather, when he came here as a farmer to work in a factory. They moved into a small house with seven children. This is also the story of many other people here. The story of hard work and poverty. The story of two world wars and upheavals. From nothing to landing on the moon.

Live in Vienna
On November 14, the Nits are coming to Vienna's Theater Akzent for an exclusive Austrian concert to celebrate their 50th anniversary. Tickets and all further information are still available at www.oeticket.com.