Negotiating with Kickl

“My reputation has certainly suffered”

"I don't have to please anyone and I don't have to become anything anymore," says the new ÖVP leader Christian Stocker in the "Krone" interview. But he is aware that his reputation has suffered.

(Bild: Jöchl Martin)

It all happened very quickly: former Federal Chancellor Karl Nehammer broke off the coalition negotiations and resigned. The new ÖVP leader Christian Stocker is now negotiating with Herbert Kickl. How he explains his resignation.

"Krone": Mr. Stocker, you are 65 years old, have a successful law firm that your son will take over. You could spend the next few years playing golf. Why are you doing this to yourself?
Christian Stocker: It's actually the case that I could have made it easier for myself. But it's about the country and not about me. I am economically and personally independent. I don't have to please anyone and I don't have to become anything. In the situation Austria finds itself in, I believe it is right to hold coalition talks. The country urgently needs a government.

In addition to independence, there is also a personal reputation, which has been very high to date and is now massively damaged. Is that not worth anything to you?
It wasn't easy for me at all. It is certainly the case that my reputation has suffered. This has also damaged my credibility in politics. Yes, it is also true: I have always said that I would not negotiate with Herbert Kickl - and now I am. This step was more than difficult for me personally.

So why are you doing it? Wouldn't new elections be more honest?
I am doing it because I believe that this step is necessary compared to all other alternatives. Not for me. Nor for the party. New elections are never a threat in a democracy. But what if we were to go to new elections: It means standstill. We would have months of election campaigning, followed by months of government negotiations. With an election result in which it is not at all certain that three parties would be enough for a majority. This time would be very disadvantageous for Austria. I am going into these talks and we will see what the outcome of the negotiations is.

I am economically and personally independent. I don't have to please anyone and I don't have to become anything.

Christian Stocker gibt sich gelassen.

A party doesn't fear elections, but a party fears a big loss before the result. Isn't the ÖVP selling its honor?
A minus is the risk in every election and the wish is of course always a plus. Elections are always up and down. Once up, once down. That is democracy. Majorities are formed from the results. With the decision to negotiate with Herbert Kickl, we want to get out of this difficult majority formation and give the country a chance. It really is the case that decisions have to be made. That is not possible in a transitional government, as we have already seen.

In other words, the ÖVP is in a lose-lose situation ...
 It's certainly not a win-win situation. The future will show everything else. We can't look into the future.

Christian Stocker and Herbert Kickl: Negotiations are underway.

(Bild: Krone KREATIV/APA/Alex Halada, APA/Herbert Neubauer)

You told Herbert Kickl to his face in parliament in December: "The country doesn't need you." What do you do now when you look in the mirror in the morning? Do you then say to yourself: "Close your eyes and get on with it"?
It has nothing to do with Herbert Kickl when I look in the mirror in the morning and close my eyes. But joking aside, it's primarily the voters who decide who my negotiating partner is. Then I can decide for myself. I had a different plan. Karl Nehammer has kept this promise and I have accompanied him on this path. We conducted the negotiations with the SPÖ and NEOS and also wanted to conclude them. However, Karl Nehammer was unable to fulfill his mandate to form a government. Not because he didn't want to, not because he couldn't, but because the SPÖ first drove the NEOS and then the ÖVP away from the negotiating table.

Didn't all three fail? The NEOS, which as a nine percent party wanted to bake too big a roll. The SPÖ, because it didn't want to take off its ideological glasses, and the ÖVP, because it didn't even want to allow a bank levy ...That's all too short-sighted. I have already noticed that the NEOS wanted to find a compromise where several interests could be combined. In my view, it failed because of Andreas Babler, who did not want to free himself from the world of class warfare.

Preventing Herbert Kickl was a very central election promise. Isn't that a voter deception?
We are a few steps too far. We are negotiating with the FPÖ. We will see whether an agreement is reached at the end of the negotiations.

What do you think the chances are?
The negotiations are open-ended: We urgently need to achieve the ability to act in Austria. But it is important for us that an Öxit is out of the question. It is important to us that we align ourselves with the free, western world and not with dictatorships. It is important to us that the rule of law is the basis of politics. We will see how the FPÖ evaluates these positions ...

What does the roadmap look like?
We will devote ourselves to the task of reporting the reference path to Brussels. There is extensive preparatory work from the coalition negotiations so that we can decide quickly.

I came to the meeting in jeans and a sweater. In my future plans, being ÖVP leader was not even an unreal option.

Der neue ÖVP-Chef über die Ernennung

What was it like for you to suddenly become ÖVP leader in the crisis meeting? Supposedly you didn't even have a suit with you...
 That's right. In my future plans, being ÖVP leader wasn't even an unreal option. On the day I was appointed acting federal party chairman, I went to Vienna in a turtleneck sweater and jeans to prepare the groundwork. It wasn't in my plan that I would be part of setting the course.

Did you say yes straight away?
I've never said yes or no straight away in my life. Maybe once when it came to my wife. That was a good decision at the time. I made a good decision then and I hope I did this time too. The fact that my wife found out from the media that I was going to be the new leader of the ÖVP shows how much a relationship has to endure in politics.

A week ago, it was beyond Christian Stocker's imagination to be the new leader of the ÖVP.

(Bild: Jöchl Martin)

Are there major concerns within the ÖVP, but also in the Hofburg, about the security portfolios of home affairs and defense? It should not fall into the hands of the FPÖ as it did in 2017. Would you give up Sky Shields so that the ÖVP can keep the home affairs portfolio? 
 I will let my negotiating partner know which positions I will take into the negotiations when we get there. But I have clear positions on this.

Which you don't want to reveal just yet?
That's right. I will not conduct such negotiations in public.

Vienna's Deputy Mayor Christian Wiederkehr from the NEOS told the "Krone" interview that the SPÖ put a paper on the table in January with 30 new taxes. Is that true?
It was indeed the case that we were repeatedly confronted with new ideas from the SPÖ that were presented as alternatives to property taxes. But I saw them as a provocation. I also said this during the negotiations. We worked hard to find points from these proposals that were acceptable to us so that we could reach an agreement. We have found a total of one billion euros on the revenue side as a possible consensus if the overall package comes about. But my perception was that it was never enough for the SPÖ.

The one billion was not enough ...
 It was not enough.

The SPÖ supposedly wanted three billion ...
 Yes, that's what they wanted. The SPÖ only wanted measures on the revenue side, but not to cut spending.

Is it true that the grand dame of the SPÖ, Doris Bures, was no longer in Andreas Babler's team at the last meetings?
Doris Bures was there during the exploratory phase, then Andreas Babler put his team together differently and Doris Bures was no longer there.

How do you want to play your role? Without wishing to offend you, you will probably not be contesting the next election campaign ...
 You can have a very short existence as party leader or a very long one. But age is not the deciding factor. I've looked at a few examples internationally and nationally. It's open in all directions.

Does it actually hurt you when an ÖVP grandee like Franz Fischler threatens to resign if a coalition with the FPÖ comes about ...
 Of course it pains me when such a personality considers leaving the ÖVP family because of these developments. I will try to alleviate these concerns in the coming weeks.

Many businesspeople are concerned that a Chancellor Herbert Kickl could weaken Austria as a business location. Does the ÖVP really want to risk that?
Prosperity depends on a thriving economy. We must strengthen the business location. I am aware that we are being watched very closely internationally. I am also aware that there are critical eyes and concerns. That is why I have defined exactly what our framework conditions are. There must be no Öxit. We need international cooperation in the political and economic sphere. We cannot isolate ourselves.

A favorite enemy is the ORF. Will the ÖVP be a bulwark against the dismantling of the ORF?
Based on the findings of the Constitutional Court, there must be changes. A truly independent media landscape is an important part of our democracy. But we will see how this is resolved in detail at ORF.